Obama Trolls: Please Stop It.

This will be a short diary.

The administrators need to check out this diary:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/5/10841 /60478#10

and start banning Obama supporters who have hijacked this thread to nitpick each and every word, and personally insult the diarist, without making ANY attempt to discuss the issues contained in the diaries.

Because of the lynch mob mentality at Daily Kos, and the coordinated efforts of Daily Kos members to gang up together and run over to take control of other liberal blogs, people can't even engage in civilized discourse around here anymore.

Admins, please check out that diary, especially the first people to respond to it, and start banning the thread-hijackers who are ruining this site.

Again, if you need help finding it, its here:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/5/10841 /60478#10

Thanks,

PJ Jefferson



Display:


Tips for the trolls. (1.23 / 17)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:27:42 AM EST

Re: Tips for the trolls. (2.00 / 5)

this isn't a diary. It's you whining about how you didn't get the responses you wanted from your diary. TR'd your tip jar for posting a diary intended merely to insult other mydd users and make ridiculous claims about how your diary was hijacked.


democracy!
by BlueGAinDC on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:58:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It certainly was not my diary. nt (2.00 / 1)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:01:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It certainly was not my diary. nt (1.66 / 3)

you were still the one bitching about it. theres no need for this diary. there are trolls on both sides, the admins know this.


democracy!
by BlueGAinDC on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:03:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips for the trolls. (none / 0)

You could havce simply posted your "outrage" in the diary you linked to instead of adding to the diary clutter on MYDD.


by Pravin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:28:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 6)

clinton supporters are no better, all these clinton supporters believe they do nothing wrong its amusing


by nj49ers83 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:31:08 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (1.92 / 14)

You've accomplished one thing.  Anna Belle's diary will no longer be the worst diary that Democratic Unity has seen in a long time.


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:31:19 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (1.80 / 10)

You are inappropriately troll rating everyone who has commented on this sorry excuse for a diary.  Your troll rating is the first troll rating I have ever received on this site in hundreds of comments.  You are a true jackass.  


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:37:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 2)

PJ's last two diaries before this were seething with racial resentment towards Obama and his black supporters.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:02:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Serious accusations - link or retract, dick! (none / 0)

How dare you slander me with charges of racism.  Should I tell everyone on MyDD you're a serial rapist who kills women, or that you fuck dead corpses, you fucking piece of shit?  Its as true as what you said about me, you serial rapist, murderer, and necrophiliac!


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 3)

I hope this makes the rec list.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:34:55 AM EST

That diary sucked (2.00 / 8)

But I actually responded to it.

But I find myself troubled by your definition of a troll.  from a movie I love:

"I do not think that word means what you think it means."

We are all democrats, but I think that some of us might have forgotten that tiny little factoid.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:35:10 AM EST

Re: That diary sucked (2.00 / 5)

I keep thinking of that line every time I see the word disenfranchised with respect to MI and FL....

Beyond that...  allow me to summarize... Only Clinton supporters are allowed to say whatever they want on this site.... Obama supporters must show contrition for having the audacity to support someone other than Clinton...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:06:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The compulsive troll raters are Obamabots (1.00 / 0)


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:21:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Now that's funny. (2.00 / 1)

I've never insulted or TR'd anybody here and I've lost my ratings ability solely because I'm an Obama supporter.  

Obama supporters are routinely TR'd for nothing more than expressing their opinion.

Might it flow both ways?  Perhaps . . . but it doesn't seem to.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:53:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The compulsive troll raters are Obamabots (2.00 / 3)

Umm... no...  it exists on both sides...

I can name for you 4 users who abuse the TR policy on a regular basis, responding with a TR to ANY post they disagree with, and all 4 are adamant Clinton supporters.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The compulsive troll raters are Obamabots (2.00 / 2)

The compulsive troll raters are Obamabots

Lie.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 7)

This is a pretty silly "diary," as was the one you claim was "hijacked."  In that previous diary, the diarist was upset that Obama supporters had effectively lobbied CNN to stop their never-ending coverate of the Wright-BS.  A move, I would add, Hillary Clinton essentially agreed with over the weekend when she said it was time to move beyond that issue and start talking about imoprtant issues again.  

Now, you're upset that a handful of posters said the diary was silly and took exception to the use of the word "liberal" as a derogatory statement?  
Yep, THIS is the kind of thing the admins should be looking into.  Hysterical.  The thread you linked to attracted some folks who disagreed with the diarists thesis.  A discussion ensued.  As it turns out, that's sort of the point of sites like this.  


by HSTruman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:38:01 AM EST

OK, lets look at the 1st responses to that diary: (2.00 / 2)

This is the very first response to the diary:

Hardcore liberal? Like that's a problem or (1.50 / 2)

something.

The circle of friends in very small now. Almost to the point of being non-existent.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it.  
by RLMcCauley on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:10:40 AM EST
[ Reply to This |  none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Not a thread hijack?

How about the very second response:

Re: Hardcore liberal? Like that's a problem or (1.75 / 4)

Amazing, how "liberal" has become a slur on MyDD.

I shall ponder this while making a latte.

I am a disenfranchised second-class citizen of MyDD.
by MattHucke on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This |  none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Not a thread hijack?

How about the third comment in the diary?

Re: Hardcore liberal? Like that's a problem or (1.50 / 2)

Pretty telling, isn't it?

by emptythreatsfarm on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:16:15 AM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This |  none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Not a thread hijack?

How about the fourth comment?

Re: Hardcore liberal? Like that's a problem or (2.00 / 1)

Honestly I think that's mostly from GOPers over here messing around.

My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it.  
by RLMcCauley on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:17:07 AM EST
[ Parent | Reply to This |  none0- hide1- troll2- mojo ]

Still no discussion of the merits of the diary.

The next one is a Clinton supporter who got suckered into the trap.  So, how about the next one after that?

Re: I am a liberal and I am for Clinton (1.00 / 1)

At the end of this you'll only have yourselves. You realize that right?

Shall I go on?!?!?!?!?


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:49:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ahhhh...what? (2.00 / 5)

Those comments are addressing a statement in the diary.  This is a progressive site.  When people use the term "liberal" as an insult, it always provokes comments like this.  I've seen it hundreds of times on this site.  And it was never viewed as a candiate specific thing in the past and shouldn't be now.  

Regardless, that's not a thread hijack.  Other than being mad at the bad "liberals" at KOS for lobbying CNN, what exactly was the point of that diary anyway?  The diarist admitted that moving beyond Wright wasn't really a problem, Hillary has said the country needs to move beyond that issue, what else is there to say?    


by HSTruman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:56:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ahhhh...what? (none / 0)

Those were excellent comments and great points, and this guy wants to have them banned?

Ok PJ,  Im waiting for that TR.......


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:07:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nitpicking each word to find a single word to (none / 0)

complain about, without even taking into consideration that the diarist may have meant "so-called liberals" or words to that extent, is hijacking a thread.

The diary was not about the word "liberal", now was it?


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ahhhh...what? (2.00 / 2)

Exactly.  Each of those posters was rejecting a foundational premise of the diary.  And what a lousy diary it was -- expressing outrage that progressive Democrats would mount a brief, successful campaign to get a prominent media outlet to stop serving up heaps of stupid.

For the record, Daily Kos posters did the same thing when MSNBC staff were serving up sexist and misogynistic remarks and stories about Senator Clinton.  I was an eager and outraged participant, and that campaign worked, too.


by deminva on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:48:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Foundational premise, LMFAO, ouch it hurts nt (none / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foundational premise, LMFAO, ouch it hurts nt (none / 0)

Well, PJ, you should try exercises to make your brain more elastic.  Then new ideas wouldn't hurt.

One of the foundational premises of this lousy diary was that those mean, activist liberals at Daily Kos have been up to their unfair activist liberalism.  It's an offshoot of one of Clinton's core excuses this season--that extreme liberal activists have hijacked caucuses and pushed the party too far left.  She called out MoveOn by name, notwithstanding it was created to help her husband and the country move on past the Lewinsky scandal.


by deminva on Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:16:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you say THAT'S the foundational premise, then (none / 0)

it MUST BE the "foundational premise", apparently regardless of the fact that I saw that word inconsequential to the thesis of the diary.

Perhaps I need to try exercises to make my brain more elastic, however!


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, lets look at the 1st responses to that dia (2.00 / 5)

Are we considering any comment that is not 100% supportive of the diary in question to be a "hijack" now...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:09:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Should we spend all our time arguing over your use (none / 0)

of the word "considering"?

Because to me, it was terrible of you to use the word "considering".  Your entire comment was about that single mis-applied word.  You should have taken the thread-hijackers' approach, and used the word "liberal" instead of "considering".


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WTF?!?! (none / 0)

Those aren't thread hijacks.  They're in direct response to the use of "hardcore liberal" as a negative, in YOUR diary on a liberal site.

Seems pretty clear to me.

You want to see thread hijacking, go find the Clinton supporter who turns every diary into a debate on healthcare.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't believe you used the word clear. (none / 0)

Your entire comment was about the use of the word "clear".  That's all there is to discuss now, and it was misplaced on a "liberal" blog.  YOu should be ashamed for using the word "clear" when clearly the right word is "liberal".  


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wasn't upset (none / 0)

And the tone of my diary indicates that. I was actually calmly suggesting we fight back against a blatant attempt to control the media narrative on CNN. I'm a fan of the free press, always have been, always will be. People who try to play neocon-like games with it will get no support from me just because we share a party affiliation. Wrong is wrong, even if a friend does it. That's one of the big reasons I can't support Obama, in addition to all the race-baiting and lying he's done. He's encouraged an IOIYAO mentality in his fanbase. I've had that for eight years, and I don't intend to have it for another eight, or even four, if there is anything I can do about it.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:04:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't upset (2.00 / 5)

How does expressing extreme displeasure with CNN for dwelling on an "issue" that has nothing to do with the problems in people's lives during an election cycle have ANYTHING to do with the neocons...?

Unless you tie Rev. Wright to the mortgage and credit crises now...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:11:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't upset (2.00 / 6)

Unless you think CNN should continue covering Wright, rather than the issues that actually affect people, I don't understand why you would object to a group of progressives asking CNN to do precisely what Hillary Clinton suggested the media do over the weekend -- move on, and talk about things that matter.  The fact that you view giving CNN that feedback constitutes "neocon" action --whatever in gods name that means -- bewilders me.  As does the idea that organized viewer feedback endangers a free press.  

As to your laundry list of Obama-insults, vote for whoever you want in November.  But the idea that McCain is preferrable to Obama is ridiculous on its face if you care about the Supreme Court, Iraq, Iran, health care, civil libertiesgenerally, progressive taxation, or the welfare of SS.    


by HSTruman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:16:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't upset (2.00 / 1)

And Hillary supporters havent been doing worse stuff in this regard with their shrieking outrage at all media but FOX? There have been numerous discussions on boycotts and letters.


by Pravin on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:31:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't upset (none / 0)

So trying to impact (I won't use your word "control", because the idea is ludicrous)the media narrative is a bad thing?  I'm wondering what you think Clinton's campaign team spend every waking minute doing.  Or is it just that Daily Kos is doing it - and we all know Clinton supporters here are obsessed with Kos, even though they are boycotting it.  So, should the sexism protest at MSNBC that Alegra promoted have been stopped, or was that OK?
Seriously Anna, I feel we're in bizarro world with this - you want to fight to keep damaging coverage of democrats on CNN as much as possible, because rank and file activists might get too much power over the MSM.  unbelievable.
by interestedbystander on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you really believe that,my mojo to your comment (2.00 / 2)

must be BLOWING YOUR MIND right now.  LOL.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:43:27 AM EST

Hijacking implies a lot more posts, I think (2.00 / 3)

Last I saw, that diary had under 30 comments.  That's hardly "hijacked."

Regardless, I posted in it, and I think I went to the message rather than the messenger.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:44:21 AM EST

It just got posted, and I disagree with your (2.00 / 1)

definition.

To me, proof of a hijack doesn't come from how many posts there are in a brand new diary, but in what order the hijack comes.  In other words, a hijack is often one of the first comments in the diary, and is often posted by someone who has merely scanned the diary for things to hijack, as opposed to someone who took the time to read it, think about it, and respond to it.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:55:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair enough. (2.00 / 2)

I still don't think it's worth complaining to the moderators about.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:11:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It just got posted, and I disagree with your (2.00 / 2)

How are you now qualified to be the comment police...?  Deciding what comments are allowable and what comments constitute hijacking....

People will comment as they comment... free-will reigns.

The admins have a thankless job on this site thanks to all of the vitriol that exists on both sides... Why make it even tougher on them?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:13:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I take umbrage to your use of the word comment. (none / 0)

Let's forget all the other issues, and discuss only that word, shall we?


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:43:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HAHAHHAHA (1.66 / 3)

The funny thing is that PJ Jefferson has written some racist diaries. So his are definitely worse.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:45:30 AM EST

Link or retraction please. (2.00 / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

TR'ing "link or retraction please", huh? (none / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:56:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link or retraction please. (1.75 / 4)


In this one, you are seething with resentment against Color of Change because they are supporting a black candidate:
http://pj-jefferson.mydd.com/story/2008/ 5/2/13036/55377

In this one, you defend Grand Wizard Geraldine Ferraro:
http://pj-jefferson.mydd.com/story/2008/ 4/15/104638/507


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:04:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and you just go a hide from me (none / 0)

for calling Ferraro "wizard" for saying exactly what she said about herself and Obama has said about himself.
The reason I will not under any circumstances vote for Obama is because if these specious charges of racism that I feel are unforgivable in a democratic primary.
Keep it up and he can count on being a 50 state disaster.
From disenfranchising voters in FL and MI to painting the Clinton's as racist to his sexist remarks to his character assassination, you could not pay me to vote for the man.  His is the most divisive ugly campaign if my life.
The media may not report it, but many of us see it and no matter what Hillary says I will NOT vote for him.  
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:22:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and you just go a hide from me (2.00 / 1)

Geraldine Ferraro was very cleverly trying to portray Obama as the recipient of Affirmative Action. She was appealing to every working class white voter who resents seeing that smooth talking black guy promoted over them.

She's racist scum.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:32:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and you just go a hide from me (2.00 / 1)

This is what a republican troll would say.  I hope you enjoy lack of healthcare, R V Wade overturned, a failing economy, and endless wars when McCain is president due to your stand here.


by Why Not on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:39:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You really think there (none / 0)

is a resemblance to Geraldine ferraro and the Klu Klux Klan.  Really, do you?  


by Xanthe on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:30:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You really think there (2.00 / 1)

Yes - she uses the same rhetoric as David Duke. She's all about portraying black people as undeserving affirmative action recipients.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:33:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you hear the word "moonbat" (none / 0)

You can be sure that someone is talking to YOU.


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:37:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you hear the word "moonbat" (2.00 / 1)

This comment should be enough for banning on this site.

This site is for Democrats. We do not call people moonbats of "leftists".


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You call Ferraro a (2.00 / 1)

Klu Klux Klan member - nay a leader of the KKK and you have the nerve to be upset over the term "moonbat."  Proportion - it's a good thing.

Good to know you think her KKK though - I will henceforth skip over your comments.


by Xanthe on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You call Ferraro a (1.50 / 2)

No problem.

Ferraro is the most racially divisive figure in the last 10 years. What she did to Obama drove a wedge between him and white working class supporters that may never be removed.

She's just a nasty, bitter old lady who is losing her mind.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are at least resolute in your foolishness (none / 0)


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Speak for yourself (none / 0)

You are assuming that all true Democrats either approve, or feel solidarity with, the more fringe elements of the left.  In fact, many of us throughout the last 50 + years cannot stand them and feel their identification with our party severely weakens our party's ability to deliver on core Democratic principles.


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Speak for yourself (none / 0)

I hate to point this out, but the "fringe left" was right on Iraq - the biggest decision of our generation. And they're right on healthcare. Do you disagree?


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Those positions not limited to the fringe left (none / 0)

Some of the most eloquent opposition to the war came from the right (e.g, Paul, Hostettler).  Proposals for some form of universal health care have been around for more than 50 years.  Again, my perspective is that the Democratic party's association with the far left (whether justified or not) is what keeps them from getting enough national consensus to deliver on some of their core principles.    


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Those positions not limited to the fringe left (none / 0)

If you're going to make this argument, repeatedly, then at least be bold enough to explain what issues the "fringe left" hold that you disagree with.  Judging by your answers so far, it's not universal health care or the war.  The "fringe" was/is right on both issues.  

So, what precisely are these horrible, out of touch ideas of the far left?  Help me out -- maybe I'll see the light.  


by HSTruman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A very fair question (none / 0)

That I will respond to at a later time.


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:07:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A very fair question (none / 0)

I'll look forward to your response.  


by HSTruman on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Those positions not limited to the fringe left (none / 0)

My perspective is that the Democratic Party's associate with the CLINTONS is keeping us from getting enough of a national concensus to deliver on some of our core principles.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Really? (none / 0)

We are hurt by association with a president who had very high approval ratings even after the impeachment debacle and could have been elected to a third term if that had been constitutionally permissible?

Perhaps the most disgusting thing about the Obama cult (and there is some competition here) is how they have completely denied the accomplishments (on behalf of the party and the country) of the Clinton years and smeared that legacy.  Of course, nothing or no one before Obama was worth anything.

Now go ahead and troll or hide rate my comment according to your Kossak custom.


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Really? (none / 0)

We lost TONS of house seats. Gore lost the presidency because of Clinton's taint. The Democratic brand was tarnished for many years.

Yes, I know Bill Clinton enjoyed personal popularity, but it was non-transferable, because the Clintons are only out for themselves.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:09:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gore's loss can't be blamed on Clinton (none / 0)

That's another Clinton hating myth.  Gore lost because of his own lousy campaign.

Clinton deserves part of the blame for the 1994 congressional landslide but the entrenched leaders of the Democratic congress deserved their share, too.  Another big factor was a very large number of Democratic retirements.  

Finally, more credit should go to Gingrich than blame to anyone else.  Not only was Gingrich a terrific guerrilla campaigner, he was a determined, patient, and hardworking developer and organizer who spent many years laying the foundation for 1994.

And the 1994 losses were large, but not unprecedented.  Both Truman and Eisenhower had ones in the same range and Eisenhower was considered a popular president.  

The truly distinguishing thing about Clinton was how he recovered, managed to work with a Republican Congress, and expanded the Democratic base.  After Clinton, there have been no landslides.  Before Clinton, the GOP owned suburbs across the country.  Now they are very competitive.  Before Clinton, the East was very competitive.  Now, the Democrats own it.

Don't be fooled.  Once the country got used to Clinton and he made adjustments, Americans became very comfortable with Clinton's governing style and the Democratic brand was all the better for it (particularly when compared to the last seven years).


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 02:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore's loss can't be blamed on Clinton (none / 0)

First of all, let me say that I LOVE Bill Clinton. I've found his conduct lately to be a bit obnoxious, but I'm one of his biggest fans.

But I'm looking at the facts here. There is no doubt in my mind that his personal failings kept Al Gore from running a semi-incumbent campaign that would have won easily. Gore had to distance himself from Clinton or at least tread lightly because there was real Clinton fatigue.

As far as 1994 go: I'm not blaming Clinton completely, though his first 2 years were pretty disastrous (mostly thanks to Hillary's incompetence on healthcare). Part of that big swing was just a partisan reallignment that had been in the making since the Goldwater campaign and Nixon's Southern Strategy. These were the Reagan Democrats - the folks who voted for Perot - finally jumping to the GOP (particularly in the south and in rural congressional districts). But Bill Clinton bears some responsibility for those losses. He was the leader of the party. You can make all the excuses you want, but the buck stops at the top.


by Democratic Unity on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're wrong about Reagan Democrats (none / 0)

Reagan Democrats were borrowed, not owned, by the Republicans.  I voted for Reagan twice but voted for Clinton twice.  The consensus is that Perot probably drew more voters from Bush.


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 06:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You really think there (none / 0)

A lot of Clinton supporters here seem to be stuck in a 1960s mindset regarding racism, i.e. that is has to be blatantly open to qualify as racism.  Anyone who keeps watch on stormfront and the modern day white supremacists knows that they don't just run around saying n*** and how much they want to kill minorities, it's much more subtle nowadays.  They rail against affirmative action, arguing that white people are being unfairly hurt because all their jobs are going to minorities.  They accuse people of being "PC" and wanting to censor speech regarding race.  They talk constantly about "reverse-racism", believing that white people are the main recipients of racism today.  They hate the "liberal elites" who they believe prop up minorities at the expense of white people.  They constantly encourage white pride and talk about all the accomplishments of white people and how they deserve more, especially poor working class whites, believing them to be the victim of the worst "reverse racism".

All this rhetoric can be found on mydd rec-list diaries, as well as on stormfront.

People need to wake up and realize that you don't have to be wearing a hood to be just as bad as the modern-day KKK.

Ferraro's comments were really awful and racially divisive.  White supremacists nodded their heads and agreed with what she said.


by Skaje on Mon May 05, 2008 at 03:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link or retraction please. (none / 0)

Yikes - horrible diaries.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the links to prove you a liar! nt (none / 0)


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:44:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 3)

Straight question (not rhetorical).

Do you think the best way to deal with an alleged troll is to write  a diary  'calling out' said alleged troll instead of contacting admin directly and privately or ignoring alleged troll troll?


by My Ob on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:46:55 AM EST

I'll give an honest answer that maynot make the (2.00 / 1)

admins happy.

The admins are slow to respond to emails, and often DON'T respond to them.  After trying it a few times, I realized that the WORST way to get an admin's attention on this website is to email one of them.

I'm sure they're inundated with emails, and have a lot of other issues to deal with as well, and I don't fault them for it, but it is what it is and hopefully they won't get upset by me pointing it out.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:53:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll give an honest answer (2.00 / 5)

"The admins are slow to respond to emails, and often DON'T respond to them.  After trying it a few times, I realized that the WORST way to get an admin's attention on this website is to email one of them."

The only time I wrote to an admin I got a quick and helpful response. Perhaps your expectations of when admin should intervene are misconceived.


by My Ob on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:02:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 2)

Straight question (not rhetorical).

Why do you think the best way to deal with an alleged troll is to write a diary 'calling out' said alleged troll instead of contacting admin privately or ignoring alleged troll?


by My Ob on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:50:18 AM EST

Wow! Just wow! (2.00 / 2)

that's how low Hillary Clinton has dragged the political discourse between democrats.  Well, in a way she may have done a lot of people a favor in helping bring out how many blind and ignorant Dems there are who will blindly support a candidate no matter how bad thier policies.  Yes, kinda like Repblicans.  I am so ashamed of the Democratic Party.  


by ETHIOLIB on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:56:25 AM EST

Gee I guess you've just described half the party (2.00 / 1)

You're a dolt with a capital "D."


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:25:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 4)

This is hysterical - its like a troll rating race...people throwing 1's and 2's around all over the place like a war...never seen so many fractional number ratings on one page...haha


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:56:28 AM EST

It is a disgusting obsession (none / 0)

Some people around here have.


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:26:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is ridiculous. (2.00 / 4)

The original diary was an attack on Obama supporters.  Some Obama supporters responded in the comments so you write a diary attacking them too.

What a waste of time.


Swish. Nothing but net.
by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 10:58:00 AM EST

I never attacked Obama Supporters (none / 0)

I never attacked anyone. I stood up for a long-held principle I have, which used to be a universal Democratic value. I encouraged action on the part of those who agree with me, and I hope they follow through.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:08:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never attacked Obama Supporters (2.00 / 3)

What's this line then -

"Don't let the OFB get away with it, or we'll have a neoliberal instead of a neocon in office, and they'll do the same things to the Democratic party that neocons have done to he Republican party, namely, destroy it."

Sweet, now Obama and his supporters will destroy the democratic party.  If that's not an attack, I don't know what is.


by reggie23 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:13:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's not an attack on Obama supporters, (2.00 / 1)

You thin-skinned, weak-kneed, goofy leftist Obamabot!

(now, that's an attack on an Obama supporter)


by lombard on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:30:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never attacked Obama Supporters (2.00 / 0)

The OFB is common netroots shorthand for Kossacks. It refers to his base, not all of his supporters. Or does base now mean something else in the up-is-down world of the OFB?


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:39:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never attacked Obama Supporters (2.00 / 1)

What does OFB stand for?


by reggie23 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never attacked Obama Supporters (2.00 / 0)

Obama Fan Base


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:58:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never attacked Obama Supporters (2.00 / 1)

Yet, you don't see it as an attack?


by reggie23 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I never attacked Obama Supporters (2.00 / 2)

So bottom line is, for you, Obama supporters are destroying the party, and must be stopped.  Got it.   I'm left wondering if you understand the concept of democracy at all.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:01:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 3)

as long as we're abusing the ratings system, I offer a challenge to mydd: get this comment as near as possible to e/2 (approximately 1.35914091).

To do this, this comment will need about twice as many 1's as 2's, so I figure I should say something bad about Clinton given the composition of the site. So,
guys, I do not think that Clinton is that experienced.

Fire away!


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:00:42 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (none / 0)

I appreciate the 2's, even though it forever crushes my dreams of achieving mathematically beautiful ratings.

Next time I'll go for the golden ratio.


Unable to rec or rate
Still supporting Obama
Still not putting up with "preening" posts
by jaiwithani on Mon May 05, 2008 at 04:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (none / 0)


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:01:30 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 2)

There are some Hillary supporters who are fair and measured in their comments, and delightful to engage.

However, to insinuate that all Hillary supporters here are such is not very accurate.  I have found, as an Obama supporter, that when I have presented facts that can't be argued, some responding comments fall into name calling.

I've also found that some of Hillary's supporters tend not to rely on the truth.

Again, I won't say this is all the people here, but the argument that Hillary supporters are looking for objective, honest, and fair discussion doesn't pan out.

I wish we could all be a little more civil, and a little less invested.


by Kiku on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:01:47 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 0)


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:02:21 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (none / 0)

My blank comment is an experiment to see if PJefferson will troll-rate it.  Let's see how it goes, shall we...


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (none / 0)


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 05, 2008 at 01:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I keep asking myself (2.00 / 2)

What will happen to this site and some of it's most vibrant members if Hillary concedes?

Are you guys still going to keep fighting against the Democratic party?

Or will this site continue to be the anti-obama site?


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:19:18 AM EST

I think Todd and Jonathon (2.00 / 4)

are working to make sure that this site does not go the way of Hillaryis44 after the primary season.


Swish. Nothing but net.
by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:22:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am fighting FOR the democratic party (2.00 / 1)

I think Obama is a fraud and a disaster of a candidate.  That is why I am supporting Clinton.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am fighting FOR the democratic party (2.00 / 2)

you forgot to add in your sincere dislike for Obama and his supporters... that comes through loud and clear in most all of your posts.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

even more interesting: (2.00 / 0)

What will happen with DailyKos if the opposite is true?

That place has went so far with its Hillary hate that I can't imagine it ever being a reality-based community anymore.


I am sick of the disrespect shown to Sen.Clinton by many on Dailykos, and now, too often, here. You aren't winning hearts and minds.
by SoCalVet on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Food fight! (2.00 / 2)

This ratings war is kind of amusing.  The rules appear to be an Obama supporter says something, then a so-called Clinton supporter down rates it.  Then Obama supporters uprate it.  The idea is to see whether the comment ends up closer to 2 or 0.

Nothing like a little friendly competition to pass the time, eh?


Swish. Nothing but net.
by GFORD on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:20:22 AM EST

I Oppose Trolling... (2.00 / 3)

...but that diary was pretty stunning the way it used "Hardcore Liberals" as an insult.  If someone posted a pro-Obama diary calling Clinton supporters "Hardcore Conservatives," there would be objections and rightly so.

It certainly doesn't merit a banning.


by TooFolkGR on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:22:30 AM EST

Re: Obama Trolls: Please Stop It. (2.00 / 3)

You might make some headway if you ask your own (Hillary's ) trolls to "stop it."


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Mon May 05, 2008 at 11:28:46 AM EST

calling DEMOCRATS "trolls" is f*d up (2.00 / 2)

we are Dems, not trolls.

you get a troll rate for calling your fellow and sister Democrats "trolls."

seriously, anyone who uses the terms "trolls," "Obamabots", or "hillbots" should be troll-rated into oblivion. and they should realize it hurts THEIR candidate, because it is an admission you can't win using arguments, so you're just throwing insults.

so supporters on BOTH SIDES need to stop that stupid ass bullshit.


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:59:17 PM EST


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